Maxim Popoff, Farewell KCMO

 The following interview was conducted with Max Popoff at Farewell in Kansas City, Missouri on April 16th 2022.

Eddie: Okay, so first of all who are you?

Max: My name is Max Popoff, and I'm smokin in a bar (laughter).

Eddie: We got that out of the way- What was your introduction to DIY?

Max: I'd say going to Blast-O-Mat when I was 16 in Denver. I think I saw Birds and Row, a French band, I was terrified, uhh... yeah. Mostly drunk on a 40 and confused. 

Eddie: How did you find out about Blast-O-Mat?

Max: I had played in a metal band with some kids and they played a show there. 

Eddie: Gotcha, gotcha. Annnd... had you been to shows at regular venues?

Max: Yeah, like playing the Pay-to-Play venues, like the Gothic and whatnot, but seeing Blast-O-Mat was the first time seeing it could happen outside of trying to get your grandma or your uncle to go to a show. Which was a relief.

Eddie: And were you attracted to it, or what got you involved with it from that point?

Max: I was very attracted to it because it wasn't like, every other show that I'd been to, that I'd played, was like standing around with like 20 other bands at some shitty aff-ton thing or like Moe's BBQ, is that still a thing in Denver? (nodding and laughter) Just drunk suburbanites bowling next to us as like, we were trying to play a show. And yeah, just seeing someone throw a show in a shitty cat piss filled venue was just very refreshing. And exhilarating. 

Eddie: And did you start seeking out more venues like that?

Max: Kind of. I ended up moving into Orange Grove which was like the little house on 3rd and Federal in Denver, and was just like, living there being a bum ass kid, when I was like 18, but getting more into DIY was when Amos, Coleman, Evan Kallas all moved out from Wyoming. And they were like, "Can we live in this house?" and I was like "Yeahh, surre, why not?" and they were like, "So we have 5 shows booked" and it was like the worst basement ever, like "What do you mean you have 5 shows booked?" they were like "Yeah, downstairs" and it was like behind a water heater and a furnace. So I think that was like the real, real introduction. Like I'd been to those shows, and continued to go to Blast-O-Mat but as soon as we started like, unexpectedly having shows in the basement, it was like "Fuck! ... okay, there's 70 people in our house."

Eddie: And were you booking local bands or touring bands too?

Max: At that point, it was Amos was booking a lot of the shows and it was touring that was... friend of a friend of a friend.

So he had played on, I think, like one tour and then everyone he met on that tour he then convinced to come to Denver to play our basement. 

And then from that point, it was like all of their friends, and friends. And that was cool too, like... trying to figure out touring and DIY touring, imagining calling venues was like fucking terrifying, like cold calling a bar and being like, "Hey, umm, can my band come play, there, in two months" but that (DIY shows) was just like people hitting each other up on text messages or Facebook, or yeah.

Eddie: Gotcha.

Max: Yeah, so locals opening up for touring bands for sure. 

Eddie: And were you playing music too at that point?

Max: Yeah.

Eddie: Have you always played music, the whole time you've been running (DIY venues)?

Max: Yeah, I think that was the biggest-- just what we were talking about earlier, just like the biggest difficulty of trying to present yourself and your band as beer to a bar. "Here, look at our market standing, we've done the research and I think that you'll like us" Like, that was terrifying and realizing that if we had our own shows, we could play the shows, and book the bands that we liked. 

Yeah, so I played music the whole time and that was probably the largest reason I was super enticed into DIY was like, "I don't have to call people? We can just have the show here!"

Eddie: Yeah, you can just mention to someone that you want to do something and then you can set something up.

Max: Yeah, and I think that's just like the most productive way to start bands too, is like, kids standing around at a DIY show... just like "We could start a band today, play this basement tomorrow, to at least like 20 people. And just book who the hell else, ya know?"

Eddie: Soooo... [long pause] We're gonna cut all the Eddie thinking pauses when we type this up, it's gonna be streamlined.

Max: I want the pauses.

Deano: You're typing it up?

Eddie: Yeah.

Deano: Make sure you include all the coughs [laughter, there may have been a joint circulating].

Everybody: [coughs]

Eddie: So, you started at Orange house and what was your next move?

Max: So, I went from, we called it Orange Grove, and I still have the most confusing orange tattoo on the back of my leg and everyone's always like, "Oh is that a snake eating itself?" "Nah, it's a orange. It's an ambiguous citrus" I was there for like four years and we were booking bigger and bigger shows and that's how I met Eli Saragoussi and Max Boyd and a bunch of-- and Patrick Callnin, do you know Patrick? They were coming to shows there and everyone was confused about what our house was [laughs] cause it was not built for... the only bathroom was like between the two bedrooms, and then the other bedroom was just like a horrible closet in the basement that I lived in, so yeah, it was not built for that, and they were like, "Why are you guys doing shows?" like "Why are you doing shows?" even though they were DIY kids, they were like, "Yeaaah, so we have a spot, it's called Juice Church" that they had just started up and I'd been there I think for like a Mail Man Land show I think. And they were like, "Yeah, someone's moving out," there was like this contentious thing where they were kicking someone out I think, and Ellie was like "Do you want to live at Juice Church?" like after we'd kicked it for a bit. And then I still also had imposter syndrome for a bit, it was like, "Aww no, these kids are so" and it was like-- did y'all ever go to Juice Church? It was just insane, it was like a whole block long church and every wall was painted in murals, and I was like, "Aww, woahh" it was just such a far cry from like, our basement. 

And so yeah, I moved in there, in like, 2015? '14 or '15, and then was there for like a year and half. 

Eddie: Gotcha, and when did you move into the Orange Grove?

Max: Like 2010 / 2011.

Eddie: 2010, 2011...

Max: Yeah, cause I graduated in 2010--

Eddie: AND--sorry.

Max: Nah, you're good.

Eddie: And would you say it was easier to do stuff like that then? Like at that time, just in general? Cause like, were you touring?

Max: Nooo, I think my first tour was like 2013. 

Eddie: 2013. But when you were out on the road, did it seem like most places, like the way Orange Grove was just like a house that threw shows for touring bands and things, was that like, you could do that everywhere? 

Max: Yeah! Totally, I mean it was like every place that we played, was just some... it was like the equivalent of Orange Grove. Questionable... not questionable houses but just like, weird spaces. Just like some kids basement and all their gear is everywhere. It was like, the Nebraska version of what we were doing and then like, the Iowa version of what we were doing. And that was like all of those tours.

So you'd like roll up, and it's like, four dudes on a couch smokin' weed, and then they're like, "Ahh, you're early..." and then like 30-40 kids would show up. 

But yeah, like, it seemed like, way, way easier. But I think a lot of people at that time were probably like inspired by each other too, like, you'd see other houses, like if you went back, you'd see another house pop up. Like, "We're doing shows too!" and they're like, sharing a PA, like, "Aww, we left the PA at the other house" Just thrown together, like, "It'll be ready". Which was... it was comforting. 

Eddie: So, you move into Juice Church and you have more space and you have more kind of, creative influences going on, or whatever, however you wanna call it.

Max: Yeah.

Eddie: And what, uhh, was you're experience like there from beginning to end?

Max: It was... very cool. I will never forget the first, smoking a cigarette on the stoop after I'd moved all my shit in and it was like a blizzard, and I was like, "Ok--ok, this is cool, this is gonna be cool" and just very excited, but nervous, but like, it was way more disorganized than I had thought it was. [I thought] "This huge collective of artists, building all these things!" and then like the first show, like "We forgot to book anybody" and it's on a Monday night, it didn't start until 10:30, and I was like "Oh! Okay" by that point I was like, I could run a show, like... very easily.

Then I think like, Patrick Callaman and I took over... probably like... 80% of the bookings like, this show that show this show. I made a Facebook and we'd have anxiety about like how many people were trying to use, like "The Hip Spot" to play shows in Denver. We'd try to get to every Facebook message but...

Yeah! Yeah, it was cool and it became more organized. It was also super like, the ever rotating cast, where, someone [would] move out, someone move in, cause I think there was 12 of us living in there. It was weird, tenement style, like, art... DIY venue. You were there when Zach [Barnes] was living there,

Eddie: Yeah!... He mentioned the not having ceilings in your bedrooms...

Max: Holy shit! [everyone laughed] You had like the whole cathedral, which was the length of like two of this building [Farewell], a whole fuckin' city block and like before I had moved in they had built up the walls, so it was like... short walls, like 8' walls, the ceiling is 24' tall [laughs] so they just kind of gave up at that point and then, no ceilings, like after a show you just hear up to 24 people... fucking loudly. [everyone laughs].

And the whole time I was there I wasn't dating anyone, and I was just like, "euhhhh". Like after one of the first shows, I was like, "This was a great mistake". Cause like staring at the ceiling with like molding fucking acoustic tiles, being like "Okay.... yup! They'll probably quit soon" 

Eddie: And did it feel like- was there any sense of like, longevity with it? Like, did you feel like you could keep doing it? Or was there always a sense of like, "This is about to get shut down" or something?

Max: We were amazed by how many shows we had and how seldom we had cops come. Because it was super obvious, the whole block would just be full of people, drunk, pissin' on the lawn. So yeah, I think we were scared about getting shut down by the cops, but like after the Ghost Ship fire was like left field. We had no idea that it would be like that. They were always going to tear that building down, so the thought was that we have it for 4? years or like renew the lease cause they weren't doing anything with it, we figured we'd be there til like, maybe even like now.

So I think there was some sense of longevity, but as soon as it became not, it was pretty quick and pretty depressing. 

Eddie: Gotcha. And had you been thinking about doing something like what you've done out here [with Farewell]? Was that in your mind at all? Or did that come about through what happened, or both?

Max: I think that... I didn't ever think about like having like this, ya know. I always thought about how cool it would be if like we could have bought that church and like continued it as a residence where people could like, you could have like 10 people live in there and have a shared kitchen and like, one half of a bathroom, which is like not--[laughter] The city was like "You got how many fuckin' people living here??" and we're just like "Aww, 12..." [laughter] like that couldn't have been a reality, but it could have been some iteration of that, for a very long time.

But like, I didn't ever think about like opening a bar, I think a lot of it is figuring it out as it comes, ya know? But everything I've done after that was to recreate the feeling I had a Juice Church, which was like... every day I was there, you wake up and there's like 10 of your best friends and you guys are booking-- we booked some crazy, like super big band on Burger Records from Australia and they came in like an actual tour bus [laughter] like a huge tour bus that they rented and I was just like "What the fuck?" and they park in front of our dumpy church [laughter] like the steeple is about to fall off and we're like, "This is the venue..." and it's like 250 people.

And yeah, just the feeling of doing that with all of your best friends and just like weird wing nuts was super cool, just felt invincible. And the group of kids that all were livin' in the church were just like... yeah, invincible. Which was cool. 

I try to recreate that in whatever community I'm in. 

Eddie: So what was it like when that ended?

Max: ... Very bad [laughter]... it was very bad. I kinda saw the writing on the wall, with a lot of the... and I knew it wasn't a forever thing, you know, Juice Church, but I just kind of picked Kansas City on a whim and like half-knew 1 person here, cause another friend was like "The have $1 houses in Kansas City!" [laughter] like, "What?!" I looked into it, like, it's a grant program, you have to have $40,000 to prove you can fix the house, I was like "I can fix it!" ya know "I just don't have $40,000!"

So yeah, uh, I was juiced on that idea and then everyone was like making moves out of Juice Church, like the crew of people, all of us, that felt very unbreakable, like 2 people were like, "I'm moving to Georgia, as soon as possible" like "What the fuck do you mean?" you know? Like, and we like fought it, we went through Exto and everyone who was a Juice went to the city and like calling the city all the time like, "You can't fuckin' evict us" like "There should be a variance for this where we can all do it" and fought it for a couple of months, but I at that point had decided to move to Kansas City and try to-- in my mind it was like, if there's $1 houses, there's certainly a place where I could convince 10 wingnuts to pitch in--

Deano: 10 cents

[laughter]

Max: Yeah [laughs] and how much is that for a $1 warehouse, ya know? And I kinda found that in Kansas City, but it's just taken some pretty radical turns [laughs].

Eddie: Soo... you toured in 2013ish 2015, that kind of era

Max: Yes, and then on until like 2020, 

Eddie: And so when you toured, right before the pandemic, like 2019, was it noticeable the difference across the country, in where you were playing and the types of venues and what the scenes were like?

Max: No.. I think at that point even people were hyper aware of the Ghost Ship fire and all of the former spaces in each of the cities that had been shut down, there were still like tons of people doing house shows. 

Eddie: Gotcha.

Max: And I think that it was like a speed-- and incredibly soul crushing-- speed bump. The Ghost Ship fire and what it did to a lot of bigger and more established DIY spaces, but I think people were still like cruising still having house shows.

Like Archer Ballroom in Chicago is like the third floor of this crazy building on the South Side, and it's like 3 flights of stairs walk up, and then it's like this massive historic ballroom and all these kids were living in there in built rooms and I was like, "Damn"

Eddie: And this was like 2019?

Max: So it was after Ghost Ship and after all that, so it was still- it still is happening now, I think there was just a sense of grief that everyone in those communities had about like these spaces. Like, you can go to any town and be talking about DIY and someone would be like, "Yeah, that space got shut down for that, everyone got kicked out and they shut it down, like the city did, and they shut her down" 

So it did bounce back, and then the pandemic's a whole other story [laughs] soo, two big... getting hit by busses.

Eddie: Well, I'm interested in how you've made it legal? Like you've gone through all the proper channels, and you've gotten all the proper licenses, to me that seems like what has to happen. Like, there has to be a certain amount of playing ball... and still be DIY and do it yourself and everything, but like have bigger shows, bigger venues, but have it be an alternative to the ticket master monopoly.

Max: Yeah, yeah-- I think that's a huge point of contention. Like Kansas City and like the scene that we cater to and like all the punk shows and all the homies that play in punk bands, hardcore bands, and just like any music, as soon as you go legitimate and you're not just doing it out of your basement or Juice Church, just some weird spot that you're living at, people start to perceive it as... it starts to become the enemy in a way...

Eddie: Really?

Max: Yeah. 100%. Like someone in KC, who was like, living at my house and then has like been around forever, like we had separate beef altogether, which is like a long story, BUT they were like, "Oh, you're gonna gentrify Farewell?!" and I was like... "What do you mean?" it's a abandoned auto factory and we also came down here so we weren't like imposing in mid town  and it's not like gentrifying, it's what it has always been, but we found a way then to make it last forever, while still doing like all ages things, and all the door money always goes to the touring bands. 

So it's like the same ethos as like... DIY, just like also selling beer. And all those kids, we're all cool, everything's good. I think they realized that we didn't like put up 5,000 Bud Lite signs, like "Welcome to Game Day!" "Want some chips and dip?!" This is like the exact same thing, but we are able to--

Deeno: This place used to be called The Dixie too. But it's definitely come a looong way since then.

Max: Yeah, back in the '80's this place was called the Walker-Dixie Tavern. [laughter] And there were like fuckin' confederate flags everywhere. So we're doing a good thing [cleansing] the evil from this building. [laughter] Like I think in the annals of history, I think this will be like, a net positive. 

I think that-[sigh] and again if this had happened, in Denver, if I could have figured out something like this... I think it would have been better received, I think Kansas City is just a different place, people see it just a little bit differently and they're like, "Oh! You're a fucking capitalist now!" and it's like, well if I'm not putting my back hat on to like sell like, beers, then this building won't last for another year. Ya know? Cause it'll either be shut down by the police, or the dude who owns the building will be like, "Okay! Gimme 60 grand, that's what you owe me" and I'll be like, "...I have $5" [laughter] 

But there's like an immediate animosity, when like... it's like you're whole fucking identity, DIY, for 99% of the people who've kicked it here. And they see that [getting licenses, etc] and they're like, "Aww! The place I used to be able to like shotgun a beer... out back, (I mean like anyone still can). What do you mean I can't bring my own bottle of vodka in here?!" Like, "Yeah!" They then perceive it as like, 

Deeno: Any small change.

Max: Yeah, any change is perceived as us becoming cops. [laughter] We're like so far from it. It's interesting and I do wonder if like Denver would have been the same way.

I do think it's like the only way to legitimacy. And I think of like keeping it... like basically in the DIY family forever. All the bands that play here, normally would just be playing in my basement, and that's just gonna be the vibe- and then there's also gonna be some bigger bands, but we're also not like a huge amphitheater.

So, yeah, but I do sometimes wonder about some of the venues that are run by like the- you're familiar with like the trope of like the 50 year old dude with tattoos who owns a bar in Denver. 

Eddie: Yeah

Max: And you're like, "Oh maybe that guy used to play in a band, that's why he opened a bar" 

And then, I was getting stressed out the life-cycle of that, I... I want people to always know that this is a DIY space, a community space, not just like a dive bar where I'm back here, "I toured back in 2016!" I want it to be a rotating cast of people who are interested in DIY and something that inspires kids to start their own house venues, like "That date's already book, you guys should have that show in your basement! If you want to borrow gear, we have a shitty PA that you can take" [laughter]

Like you should be, like you should be doing that.

Eddie: Hell yeah...umm

Max: Sorry that was a long answer.

Eddie: No! That was perfect, that was great. What would you say, for all of the DIY venues you've ever been in, starting with way back, top 3 shows.

Max: Damn...

Eddie: Or this is the time to just say memorable shows.

Max: Yeah, Show Me the Body, here, Show Me the Body from New York, was one of the craziest shows, when it was still warehouse zone. It was 150 kids just going crazy and they're like a post hardcore band with a banjo. Just a heavy, very, very heavy banjo. Sick show.

Hank Wood and the Hammerheads here- well I can't just list all [here]. I'm trying to think of like, 

Richard Drefest is like a whole festival in- now it's Julia-Louis Drefest [laughter] cause Richard Dreyfus apparently is a creep. 

BUT it's in Billings, Montana, it's like all the DIY- there's like one bar that does live music in Billings, I'm sure there's more, but it's all like Dad Rock and Bluegrass. But like all the kids in Billings come together every year and have this fest. So we'd go play that and then someone would be like "My parents are selling their house and all their shit's out of it, we can all stay there!" And it's just like stinky, funny, cool kids from like everywhere all staying in this empty suburban house in Billings, Montana and that just all of that, there were like a million shows at all the different venues, that was definitely like tops.

And then the third one would be... trying to think of the craziest Juice show I saw... Definitely I'd say one of the crazier Juice Church shows I saw was... I can't even think of one in particular, that was a pretty blurry time. Talk about like Mouth House [and blackouts] and I was in the same boat at Juice Church, just like "Five shows this week, I'm pretty perma drunk..." [laughter].

Eddie: Top three weird experiences?

Max: In DIY?

Eddie: In all your DIY spots over the years, top three weird.

Max: In Mynot, North Dakota, we played a fest up there called Why Not Mynot, and I remember we went, there were some old dudes there called Duffy and the Beer Slayers... and they, fuckin, lived in this very busted house, like last show of the entire fest was at their house, it's already 11 o'clock at night, so Duffy and the Beer slayers were supposed to play at like 3 in the morning, and... I was like a grown ass adult, I was like 23 or something, 24, but the fuckin' cops came, at like 4 o'clock in the morning and there was like way more than 120 kids, stuffed in this shitty house, like in the basement. And all of us just went dead silent like "Woah!" and we're just like, beer in hand, like "We're going to jail!" like my brain went back to being a 16 year old, cause everyone else there was like 16 year old North Dakotan kids. And everyone's just like dead silent and the cops are like, "We know you're in there! We fucking know that a lot of you are in there!"And no one said a word, and then the cops busted in, and everyone started filing out, like "Is there a window?" [laughter] And my friend Nick was just like "Dude, we're fucking grown ass men, let's just get in the van." 

But yeah, that's definitely a weird one. [laughter]

.... I think... [sigh]... we played one show in Spokane, Washington and at a fuckin' house that I didn't know- our friend put it together- but like at some weird crust-punk house like 3, very, very, very, heavy crust-punk bands and then a band called Mark Loves Marijuana that was just like a guy in a shower cap, tryin to do one-man-band shit, and then us, but like all the crust-punk kids in like oogles and train-riders and like would not engage us, like "We're the touring band! Should we even fucking be here?" like we set up and all of them walked outside and so we just played to the guy in the shower cap and shower gown that was Mark Love Marijuana- and he really did [laughter] it was like a schtick but...

...And then... shit I don't even know.

Eddie: Two is good! Two is fine. Alright, so last question,

Max: I'm a talker baby,

Eddie: Do you have any final words on DIY?

Max: I think that... everyone should be radicalizing all the young kids to stay in DIY and be community oriented, cause it's like the only solace in like very, very shitty times and like many, many speed bumps, but like, I think a lot of DIY communities fell apart during the pandemic, but I think that getting kids involved now, people are talking about like the Education Gap, and kids missing years of school, I'm like "Nah, these kids are missing years of DIY!" [laughter] like, these kids should be at shows, and like convince all the young kids to keep doing it. 

Eddie: Thank you very much Max.

Max: Yeah!