Clay Dehaan, Mouth House

 The following interview is with Clay Dehaan, former resident and partial operator of Mouth House:

[Note: Clay was correct that 2010 was the start date. As was discussed in the interview and was true for me personally, there were a lot of blackouts and I just have a totally mixed up highlight reel of memories totally out of chronological order and I ended confusing things. My bad Clay!]

Eddie: So, would you happen to be Clay Dehaan?

Clay: I would happen to be him!

Eddie: Were you? uhhh... anyway-- So, when?... Do you know the move in date on Mouth House, originally?

Clay: I wanna say it was like... Marilyn moved in there, April 2010. 

Eddie: April 2010?

Clay: Yeah, I moved in July 1st, 2010. So a couple months after. And the first show was probably July or August.

Eddie: And uhh... I know Sparkler Bombs played the first show.

Clay: Oh, nice.

Eddie: So we were there for that... umm... I think the first show was part of a tour kick off?

[it wasn't]

Clay: ...okay (laughs).

Eddie: My memory of that is that then we went to the South with Red vs. Black.

Clay: I think you're thinking of 2011.

Eddie: 2011? Okay... so when did you start throwing shows then?

Clay: Was it 2011? Or was it 2010?... Ohh, okay, 2011. 

Eddie: (Laughs) Okay.

Clay: That was the first, that was the beginning... So yeah, I guess it was all 2011. So you think the first show was the tour kickoff?

Eddie: I'm not positive.

Clay: Yeah, I'm not positive on that.

Eddie: But I do know Sparkler Bombs and Cosmic Sound Child played the first show.

Clay: Okay...

Eddie: But anyway, so... once you... you had been touring kind of extensively, were you building up contacts of people who got in touch with you to play Mouth House?

Clay: Well, I definitely wouldn't say I'd been touring extensively.

Eddie: Err, how many tours had you been on?

Clay: Probably... three? 

Eddie: Three? Okay, I might be thinking of Sam, [Sam Tallent, Clay's bandmate in Red v. Black] Sam always toured extensively.

Clay: Yeah, he started touring with the band as well, with Red vs. Black. But yeah, he did a lot of.. of comedy tours.

Eddie: So, the original tenants, how many of them were there?

Clay: Umm, I think at first, I wanna say nine or ten.

Eddie: And, uhh, was everyone from Elizabeth [Colorado]?

Clay: No, because Bill [La Cava] was the first to find the house, and he was my friend from college, who moved here.

Eddie: Right on, soo... it was a punk house, right? is how you would describe it?

Clay: Me personally, no I wouldn't describe it as a punk house.

Eddie: Ahh, okay, how would you [describe it]?

Clay: I think it definitely had punk house aspects ya know, and we certainly had punk shows the punks came to, umm.. but no... I wouldn't describe it as a punk house. And like you said, a lot of people did come from Elizabeth, that weren't necessarily punks, at all. It was kinda, like a punk house was one aspect of it, and then it was also like a college age kid, like, house, like a college party house, ya know?

Eddie: Did you have touring acts come through?

Clay: All the time, yeah.

Eddie: Okay, and how did they find you?

Clay: Umm, through promoters. So like, occasionally, it was done through people who lived in the house, ya know, either me or Joe [Hatfield] mostly and maybe it was bands we met on tour or... through our own musical connections. But mostly it was done through promoters in town, and we kind of like, over the-- I guess it was only two and a half years that it... ran-- over time we kind of figured out which promoters were like, the best ones to go through basically (laughs).

Eddie: So would you say the shows improved over that time?

Clay: Oh yeah, a lot.

Eddie: Right on... do you feel like, had it not been shut down, it could have been a more... like... it could have flourished in a way, or do you feel like... it was unsustainable or like, how do you feel about it?

Clay: To me, it was definitely unsustainable. I think it did flourish, and I guess with no police involvement-- cause the police were coming were coming to shows kind of, all in that last summer and shutting them down or... ya know, just keeping tabs on us. If that hadn't of happened it certainly would have gone on longer,  but I don't necessarily think it would have been like, a long term kinda project... ever (laughs). It would have fizzled out just through its own lack of inertia at some point.

Eddie: Okay. So, but it was a fertile ground in a lot of ways, like how Richard Ingersall he got his start with music there, err with art, visual art, like Joe [Hatfield] is one of the most amazing, multidisciplinary, creative people I've ever met. 

Clay: For sure.

Eddie: So like it fostered something in a lot of people. What about it do you think... was conducive... to that?

Clay:... It was just a space to do it. To know that you could have a space for an event, or to exhibit things, whether it be art or music. And that was definitely it's most redeeming quality, that it was just open to anybody and anything. Ya know, I said that we figured out which promoters were kind of the best, but that doesn't mean that we turned anybody away. It meant that we would get you a "Yes" faster, if we had done a show for you before, and... and knew you. 

But... we had like every kind of performance imaginable there ya know (laughs). We had rap shows, we had art shows, umm... we had benefit shows-- there was a little bit of everything-- comedy shows... some like... roller skater... film screenings (laughs) ya know, avant garde noise music.

Eddie: It was a free-for-all!

Clay: It was a free-for-all. That's why I don't describe it as a punk house, cause generally, when I think of a punk show, it's a show that punks go to, ya know?

Eddie: Gotcha.

Clay: And it was such a mish-mash of... stuff happening, that that doesn't really describe it. Just "a punk house" as I've known other punk houses.

Eddie: Well it was a... it was a huge place.

Clay: Yep.

Eddie: Like three stories, 

Clay: Yeah, I mean, it still exists right over there [we were at Curtis Park].

Eddie: Yeah, it looks nice now.

Clay: Yeah, and honestly, I'll go on the record as I'm happy with what they did with it because so many old houses just get scraped and replaced with a condominium. They didn't do that, they went for the remodel and... rehabilitate.

Eddie: Yeah, and now some people can raise their family there--

Clay: Maybe.

Eddie: Maybe their kids will grow up to be punks and inherit the house and...

Clay: Who knows, who knows? 

Eddie: Turn it all into...

Clay: Not the worst option, not the worst fate for it though, in my opinion.

Eddie: Had you lived in houses that threw shows before?

Clay: Yes, I lived in one called the Abbatoir-- actually it was called Goblin Haus and the venue behind it was called the Abbatoir-- in upstate New York. And I did five, six maybe seven shows there or something.

Eddie: Okay, and were you doing most of the booking?

Clay: At Mouth House?

Eddie: Yeah, at Mouth House.

Clay: I can't say most of it.

Eddie: Er, a fair amount of it?

Clay: I probably averaged, like seven, eight shows a year or something. That I booked.

Eddie: Okay, so how did shows get booked there?

Clay: Ideally, it was through... honestly I call them the promoters, but like for the most part, they just played in bands and they would-- they would do the work of a promoter but, they were not like, I don't know if they thought of themselves as promoters. But the ones I, starred [Clay had a notebook], were... Mark Masters, Claudia Woodman, Sara Century, Valarie Franz, Luke Fairchild, Robin Walker, Keith Curts and Bret Stoked. So that's like a handful of promoters who did shows there that... were memorable, ya know.

Eddie: And did they become attracted based on the spirit of Mouth House? [Like] of what you guys were doing? Or had they known you before, or...

Clay: Umm... a mix. I mean, some of them got in touch with us like, through somebody else and then... they were probably just enticed by the spirit of Mouth House and then some of them were like, just personal friends. And, you know, each of them really represented a different aspect of the Denver music scene. And then they kind of tapped into that, and brought them to Mouth House.

And that's kinda why it became known to so many groups and so many different people, is because we had so many different promoters who had... put on the shows.

Eddie: Gotcha, and they had permission from you guys... was there like an acceptance of you guys like "We're not gonna really police [what gets thrown here]..." or were there any shows that you guys rejected or anything?

Clay: I'm sure there were, but honestly I don't think there were any rejections due to some kind of quality control, like, honestly it came down to, we had one month where we had like 15 or 16 shows, and like, we lived there and the venue wasn't really separate from the house. It was the house and the bands played right outside my door, and I've always been an early riser, to go to work, ya know. So the only time we turned down shows was because we had too many shows going on already. And I would say in our last year we cut it down even more, so that we were only doing... ya know, two shows a week or something. At the height of the summer.

Eddie: Gotcha, so... you mentioned that you went on to be more involved with Club Scum, and you are... proud of the work you did there. Do you see a space in-- just taking Denver for example-- where... there is that kind of like... place where people can just get started? You have a weird idea, you just want to see if it works, you just wanna book a show somewhere... has that lived on? Has that changed into different stuff or is that going away?

Clay: ... I mean, I think that's still there. I can't say it's gone away. I don't-- honestly with the pandemic being so fresh, I think it's hard to even have a finger to the pulse of the music scene right now, ya know? Umm, but it seems like it's always there, to me.

Eddie: Gotcha.

Clay: I mean Mouth House was only one of many house venues that were active at the time, and there's been house venues since, and I'm sure there's someone with a house today who's ready for a show. I mean, I've talked to people recently about having shows in their house. So...

Eddie: Gotcha.

Clay: You know, the scene that I'm plugged into mostly is the punk and hardcore scene, and um... some of the rock and roll scene and I mean... it's hard to say anything's thriving right now. But I assume that like, there's still that mutual support system out there.

Eddie: Yeah... it's... I almost think about the Law of Conservation of Mass with it, that energy can't be destroyed or created. That like, as long as there is this energy... to be doing... your own thing, whatever that is... that's uhh, a natural human instinct. And, and uhh... Mouth House is special to me because it first showed me what true [stammering] what a certain kind of thing was. It just gave me a sense of that, and... when it shut down, I feel like a lot of the energy that was condensed there, got kind of burned out out, er went to different places, er whatever. Maybe burnt out isn't the right word for it, but just dissipated. Umm...

Clay: Uh-huh, Welll, that group of people that lived there certainly, ya know, scattered. In some ways. Each went and did our own thing.

Eddie: Yeah... so, umm.. did you you guys ever do the DM for address or did you publish your address in [social media].

Clay: We published it, I mean we were really brazen. Maybe we took down the facebook page at some point... I can't really remember though. But we weren't really clandestine at all.

Eddie: Which, do you think was harmful to it in the long run, or...?

Clay: Definitely. I mean... definitely. If I had had control over Mouth House, maybe it's wouldn't have been the venue that so many people know and love, and I think some of what we were successful in with Club Scum that didn't happen, ever, at Mouth House, was being more clandestine, and umm, and being more curators and you know, picky, about what performances we actually had there. And in the end, it was a way better way to go. 

Umm, but, that spirit of it being a free-for-all is what Mouth House had, you know, that Club Scum didn't have. And... you know, you think of so many DIY venues and at the door there's a list of rules like-- and they're great rules, I totally believe in them-- but it's like "No homophobia, no transphobia, no sexism, no racism.. no drugs" you know, some are "No alcohol".

Mouth House didn't have any of those rules (laughs). All of those rules were broken, very harshly, at Mouth House. And... that was just part of it, like, I think people kind of understood that. But it kinda sucks too, cause like I'm sure there were some that did not like that kind of... that kind of free-for-all. And there was lots of drug use, we were all pretty alcoholic, I mean, that's why I can barely... remember it, my time there. 

Eddie: Same, yeah.

Clay: We were all drinking pretty hard, and there was not much to do in Five Points at the time so we would walk to Champa St [to go to] Bar Bar and Old Curtis and then we would stumble home at like 3am, and do drugs or something, like....

One time the toilet was busted because people were flushing syringes down there-- it wasn't the people who lived there-- but.. visitors, you know... umm... And it was eventually shut down by the Vice-Squad. So, you know, we weren't the um, drug distribution center that they thought we were, ya know, we didn't really have dealers who lived in the house... but we had a bunch of drug users. 

So you know, they weren't wrong about there being drugs there, they just were way off about it being some kind of like... dealer house.

Eddie: And it just seemed like such a target to me. I was surprised that it lasted for as long as it did.

Clay: Yeahh--

Eddie: Because it just seemed like that, not being clandestine part of it, of just being out there and like...

Clay: Well, I've always been thankful to the neighbors who lived there, because I know we pissed them off. I talked to the guys across the street, cause they worked in landscaping fields similar to me and they would be up early and they'd be like "Yeah, you kept me up last night" ya know "You guys kept me up multiple nights this week" or whatever.

And I felt terrible (laughs). And I was like "Thank you, for not called the cops on us" you know? And there was an artist who lived kind of behind the house who we never even saw, he was like an older Gen Xer of maybe even older than that, and he just... did not... care. Umm, and the rest of the neighbors just put up with it. So, kudos to them.

Eddie: What do you think of this idea of John Golter's of like... leagues?

Clay: Oh yeah--

Eddie: Did you read about that?

Clay: I did, I mean I definitely think that's one way to look at it. Umm... I guess my own opinion is that... a good DIY venue is not just some subcultural... entity, ya know, where it's like a small version of the larger culture. I think a good DIY venue can be counter cultural, where it's actually like in opposition to normal culture.

Eddie: Sure.

Clay: Does that make sense?

Eddie: Yeah!

Clay: And I think a lot of punk houses are that, like "We're doing this because we are refusing to do a normal thing" and like straight edge is like the most obvious example. And we had straight edge shows at Mouth House too, although we didn't enforce that, but the bands were [enforcing it], ya know. But like that's basically saying "We're not going to go to bars, we're not going to be just some like, normal kind of cultural entity, just like reduced in size to our little group" it's like, "No! We are against all that".

Or you could say it's a parallel structure, where like there's that over there, with like the corporate theaters at the top, like run by AEG and LiveNation or whatever. And then there's this other parallel structure, you know? And you don't necessarily need to jump from one to the other

Eddie: Well like, just the idea of pursuing stardom a lot of people are not-- they're pursuing something, ahh... counter cultural, like what you're saying. They're not aiming exactly to be the next Imagine Dragons or anything, they want something completely... opposite of that.

Clay: But do they just want to just be like their own brand of Imagine Dragons, ya know? (laughs)

Eddie: Well, maybe.

Clay: I think if you're trying to be a star, then you like, don't want to play a bunch of Mouth House shows.

Eddie: Well, that's what I'm getting at is that, what you're bringing up is this idea that like... and I think this comes from you as being involved in punk for a long time... that really hardcore bands never... would you say they ascend up the food chain? Or what happens to those guys?

Clay: ... Some do... I would say that the bands I'm a fan of, no, they don't. I mean I think that there is a counter cultural music scene in the country and you might be well known among that scene, but no, you don't ascend up a food chain. You get to the top of that [counter-cultural scene], and that, that's your goal.

I mean, think about that band G.L.O.S.S, which is not a Mouth House reference, I wish I had more Mouth House references… they played at Club Scum. But they, I mean they were the top of the counter-cultural umm... scene. We paid them pretty well, when they played at Scum, and that same year, I think they were offered like a $60,000 record deal, and they turned it down, you know? That kind of like embodies... that philosophy.

Eddie: Yeah, that's awesome.

Clay: But there were definitely bands that played at Mouth House that were like that too, ya know.

Eddie: Like G.L.O.S.S?

Clay: Yeah.

Eddie: Gotcha. Umm... what were your top three shows at Mouth House?

Clay: I'm glad you asked, cause I wrote them down. So, Dirty Work and No Class.

Eddie: Dirty Work and No Class?

Clay: Yeah, from Kansas City-- and this is just my perspective, I know this isn't going to be everybody-- uhh... Speedwolf, the Speedwolf show was really fun, and White Lung was the third one.

Eddie: Okay, and what was exciting about those shows?

Clay: Umm, the bands were really good. I mean, Speedwolf is not my favorite band (laughs). Because I just don't know, I'm not a big metal fan, but... they were awesome, because, they're like hometown-heros, ya know? And for them to play like, a little living room like that... the energy, I don't know how many people came up to me that night and said like, "Can you believe Speedwolf is playing here?!" ya know? And it was just that kind of funny, silliness, like was so good that night. And they destroyed the ceiling. Or the crowd destroyed the drop ceiling that night. It was a bitch to clean up.

I also want to go on record saying like, we did not-- people were very helpful running the shows, who lived at Mouth House, and they were not very helpful cleaning up.

That's all I'm gonna say.

Eddie: On record?

Clay: (Laughs)

Eddie: Yeah, that place got trashed, man.

Clay: And one time a Vice reporter wanted to write about the house, and we took a bunch of pictures, and sent them, but it was right after we had cleaned up and they rejected the pictures, because they're whole... angle (I don't know if this should go in the interview) was just, what living in filth is like. It wasn't like, "What living in a venue house is like / what living in an art house is like / what living in a co-op is like" or anything like that, it was like "What living in filth is like" so they rejected it because our pictures were too clean. And I was like... I hope that writer has grown up since then. That was such a like, Discovery channel "Hoarders" episode. Terrible idea (laughs).

Eddie: So... what are... your top three weird experiences?

Clay: Top three weird... well, I definitely think about all the broken windows we had. I think I counted like eight or nine broken windows. And that was really tough when the power was out in half of the house because the heater... wouldn't work, and we had to run extension cords all over the house from the half that did work and run space heaters. And then also, we could only take cold showers.

Eddie: Oh my god.

Clay: Yeah, and that lasted... there was like several periods of that.

Eddie: Oof.

Clay: (Laughs) Umm... yeah... and there were a lot of shows that I didn't enjoy too... and umm... I would actually have to leave the house and go hide somewhere because, I didn't like the crowd that was coming over... ya know, that was part of it, for me, for sure... (laughs) I don't know if that classifies as a weird experience, but it was weird for me. Having to hide from my own house (laughs).

I also met a ton of people in that period who... some are still friends or some are still acquaintances, who I see and they'll always want to talk about Mouth House... Umm, Luther was an interesting character [a neighbor who would hang out and shows and stuff] 

 Who else was around back then?... And there's so many people I'm glad I don't see anymore, cause for me it was like, there were so many Elizabeth... kids... who would come party there, ya know? And what was weird for me too was, I was only like 25(?) and I was the old one.

Eddie: I always thought you were like in your 30's or something!

Clay: Exactly, exactly. I was like the most adult one, [and] when I look back at myself, ya know, I was still a kid, but I was like the least... childish. I don't mean childish, like a brat or something, but like, it was like I said, it was like a college house, there were a lot of 18, 19, 20 year olds, 21 year olds, 22 maybe, and then I was "above" all them at 25 and it was like a noticeable difference, maturity-wise and everything.

Eddie: I'm 30 and Sam, Sam Tallent, told me recently that he's like, 33, and I was like sure he was in his 40's by now. I was like, how can you be 3 years older than me?! You seemed liked you were a decade more mature than me!

Clay: (Laughs) 

Eddie: And same with you man, you and Sam just...

Clay: Well, I was always the one who had to talk to the police--

Eddie: And what would you say when you were talking to the police?!

Clay: That we were gonna... gonna wrap it up. I mean, they knew, they knew what we were. 

Well, when two of the house members were given tickets at the show that we got busted at, or whatever. Which I guess was a halloween show? Two people got tickets for-- an undercover cop came in-- and this was one of the shows that I avoided-- I was actually gone, dubbing tapes, if I recall correctly, just trying to be productive, cause I did not want to be at the house for this show. 

This is just what was relayed to me. An undercover cop came in, wearing a Dropkick Murphys t-shirt, and one of the house members said like, "It's 5 bucks to get in and here's your cup" I guess, which constituted illegal sale of alcohol, [and] one of the promoters like, hid or something, and the other promoter decided to take a fall, with that house member. 

So two people got distributing alcohol illegally tickets and they went to court for it and in the discovery packet, in their little arraignment or whatever, umm, it came out that the city had spent like $20,000 putting the case against Mouth House together, and launching the vice raid, because after the undercover cop [where] there was that transaction, nine vice officers came in and searched the house and... I don't think they found anything. Which is good.

But, by that time, we had really slimmed down who actually lived there and how much, extra partying there was, because I think people had had their fill, with just the shows at that point. Cause the first year, there was just like shows and parties just constantly. There was constantly people in and out, there was never not a visitor it felt like, ya know.

Eddie: Yeah.

Clay: But we had kinda slimmed that down by the last summer.

Eddie: Do you feel like it could have gone on? I know I already asked you this, but like...

Clay: It probably would have gone on a little bit longer. Maybe another year, it's hard to say.

Eddie: And is that kind of the life expectancy of a place that does something like this?

Clay: Of a place that goes as hard as Mouth House?

Eddie: Well, Mouth House was, I think, exceptionally... boisterous, or whatever, but somewhere like 7th Circle-- well they don't have people living there right?

Clay: Umm... no.

Eddie: So do you think having people live at the venue, run the venue, are there examples of that being more sustainable? Or is it like, they have this short life expectancy, people move on?

Clay: I mean, Glob is an example of one that has a way longer life expectancy, right?

Eddie: Yeah, true.

Clay: So yeah, it's totally possible, doesn't matter if people live there or not. If you run your ship as tight as 7th Circle is run, you have all those volunteers and you take it seriously and you follow the rules, which are good rules, ya know... some DIY venues last for decades.

Eddie: That's awesome... Well, is there anything you wanna touch on [about] your experience of Mouth House?

Clay:... Not necessarily... Oh! One great memory was when, I think we had a bouncy castle in back a couple of times, and actually, some people from the community came over and brought their kids, to the bouncy castle. And I would say if I have one memory that really shines brightly, above all the others, even the shows, it's that because that shows you what DIY venue can be, more than just a party house. It's like, it could actually be a community spot, for everybody. And not just like, the wasteoids (laughs) 

And sure, right next to the bouncy house, we had a slip and slide, and at the end of the slip and slide were a bunch of broken tv's, so you would slip into a bunch of... broken glass, and... tv parts. The unsafe-ness was right next to it, you know, but like... I was really proud of that fact, that like the community felt [comfortable enough] to bring their kids over to play in that bouncy house, like you know, that was... that was probably the biggest win we had, in those two and a half years.

Eddie: That's a beautiful memory, man.